Mirage Source
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Platform Development
http://web.miragesource.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=201&t=1481		 Page 1 of 18
Author:  Verrigan [ Fri Mar 09, 2007 5:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Platform Development
I've been thinking for a long time about this..

Currently, MS is created for and runs on the Windows operating systems. Some modifications (i.e. IOCP) require an NT-based Windows OS, but it's still Windows just the same...

My thought is this:
When you go out to see how much a dedicated windows server costs, you will find that the best deal you can get is in the bargain basement of a company like aplus.net.. (That's who I use..) And adding Windows Server to the mix usually costs around $15-25 extra per month.. (It's outrageous, I know.. But Windows Server OS costs near 1K to 1.3K.. So they have to get their costs somehow..)

Anyways.. Back to the point. Dedicated Windows servers cost more than Dedicated Linux servers.. I've seen some Dedicated Linux servers for under 30$/month.. Not the best, but still quite manageable..

What I would like to do is.. Create a version of Mirage Source (Server only) that will compile and run in a Linux environment. I'd probably use C for this.. It would also probably take me a very long time to complete.. But I wanted to know if there was any interest in such an animal.. So I leave the floor to you guys.. Vote away. It's a Yes or No question, so if you 'abstain' then you'll just have to not vote. :)
Author:  William [ Fri Mar 09, 2007 5:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
I can't vote. It would always be good with more MS Ports, but I wont use it. So its kinda Yes and No.

Although if you complete it, you can always get a board here for it :P
Author:  Verrigan [ Fri Mar 09, 2007 5:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thanks, William.. Haven't decided on my own vote for this yet... hehe.
Author:  Joost [ Fri Mar 09, 2007 6:03 pm ]
Post subject: 
I've heard a lot of people try this, but no one completed it. Better off investing your time watching hentai, I'd say.
Author:  Rian [ Fri Mar 09, 2007 8:31 pm ]
Post subject: 
Eh, I think if anyone can do it, it'd be you. And anyone who could use linux over windows, would use linux over windows.

I say go for it.
Author:  Coke [ Fri Mar 09, 2007 10:05 pm ]
Post subject: 
The only worry is it would make it much harder for the average nubski to plow in the tutorials and make their own game so that may be a downfall :/

I love the idea of it, but i doubt i would be able to use it due to my lack of C knowledge
Author:  William [ Fri Mar 09, 2007 10:13 pm ]
Post subject: 
yeah, there will probably not be many people using it. I would hope you could spend your expertice on something good for vbMS :) I know you've done more than anyone could ask for, but we can always hope that once again something amazing is produced by you :) If you want to make a linux version, do it. If I had the time I would have made a single player game withh toolkit as a side project.
Author:  Coke [ Fri Mar 09, 2007 10:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
If you ever have some spare time verrigan, i would love for you to run me through how the (code wise) packet system on ms works; ms seems to have alot of things in it you cant learn from books :cry:
Author:  Obsidian [ Fri Mar 09, 2007 11:39 pm ]
Post subject: 
I'd love to see it. I'd be more impressed with a Perl or C++ port, but if you're going to go with just C, i'll still be really impressed. I started a C++ and i was trying to keep it as close to the current MS as possible. I just hate the way the server works for MS so i eventually stopped... i probably only converted over about 30-40% though.
Author:  Misunderstood [ Fri Mar 09, 2007 11:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
I can't even play MS games because I'm on Linux. Although I know what you're doing still won't fix that, I say go for it.
Author:  William [ Fri Mar 09, 2007 11:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
Decided to vote no for some reason. Not sure why, but isn't there a program that you can use to run a server on linux?
Author:  Spodi [ Fri Mar 09, 2007 11:55 pm ]
Post subject: 
Although it would be nice, rewriting it in a different language would take a hell of a lot of work and time. Many MS servers run just fine from a home machine, too, backed by a broadband connection and a decent machine.
Author:  Verrigan [ Sat Mar 10, 2007 2:53 am ]
Post subject: 
My first real programming experience was with C on a Unix machine (SunOS, I believe) on the Free Software Foundation's (FSF) computers in Caimbridge.. (They are, basically, the GNU project.)

I like C, though it has been a long time since I've done any real programming in it, I think I can successfully complete a simple MS server for Linux in just a few short full-time weeks.. (About 80 hours..) But since I don't have that much free time each week, it'll probably take me 2-3 months.. :P

I'd still like to see some more poll results before I make my decision... And of course, I'm still working on other ways to better the current MS. :)
Author:  grimsk8ter11 [ Sat Mar 10, 2007 11:54 am ]
Post subject: 
If you chose C++ I'd be more then willing to aid as well.

Even in C I may be able to offer something.

If it's C++, I can most specifically offer MSE++, which is mostly only server code, that needs a bit of a fixer up, but nothing more than that before its worked on more.
Author:  Misunderstood [ Thu Mar 15, 2007 7:10 pm ]
Post subject: 
Oh, btw, the MS server works nicely run through wine. The client, well, that errors.
Author:  Robin [ Thu Mar 15, 2007 7:19 pm ]
Post subject: 
Misunderstood wrote:
Oh, btw, the MS server works nicely run through wine. The client, well, that errors.


I got the client running on Ubuntu with a bit of faffing around.
Author:  Verrigan [ Thu Mar 15, 2007 8:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
Considering that wine is an emulator... Does it, or does it not, have a slower processing time on the server? (Or the client. :P)
Author:  Robin [ Thu Mar 15, 2007 8:54 pm ]
Post subject: 
Verrigan wrote:
Considering that wine is an emulator... Does it, or does it not, have a slower processing time on the server? (Or the client. :P)


Good point :P
Author:  one [ Thu Mar 15, 2007 9:51 pm ]
Post subject: 
Verrigan wrote:
Considering that wine is an emulator... Does it, or does it not, have a slower processing time on the server? (Or the client. :P)

wine is an recursive acronym and stands for "wine is not (an) emulator". :P
it allows linux users to use the windows api
Author:  Robin [ Thu Mar 15, 2007 9:57 pm ]
Post subject: 
one wrote:
Verrigan wrote:
Considering that wine is an emulator... Does it, or does it not, have a slower processing time on the server? (Or the client. :P)

wine is an recursive acronym and stands for "wine is not (an) emulator". :P
it allows linux users to use the windows api


That went right over my head, but sounds impressive!
Author:  Spodi [ Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:06 pm ]
Post subject: 
one wrote:
Verrigan wrote:
Considering that wine is an emulator... Does it, or does it not, have a slower processing time on the server? (Or the client. :P)

wine is an recursive acronym and stands for "wine is not (an) emulator". :P
it allows linux users to use the windows api


Picky picky - technically emulator or not, the result is still pretty much the same and people know what you're talking about. :wink:
Author:  Verrigan [ Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:56 am ]
Post subject: 
Wine used to stand for Windows Emulator.. So.. Now you know I haven't followed the development of it since its early stages. ;)

Regardless.. The Windows API was developed for Windows, and wine has to do something behind the scenes to be able to get Windows API to call Linux libraries..

So... It's going to have some processor latency, regardless of whether they claim it is an emulator or not.
Author:  Misunderstood [ Sat Mar 17, 2007 12:03 am ]
Post subject: 
I believe it may be slightly slower, I didn't test it much. There are cases, however, where programs run through wine are faster than programs run on windows. I can't provide a specific example though.

Quote:
I got the client running on Ubuntu with a bit of faffing around.

What did you do to get it to work? I had problems on Ubuntu. It might be because I have the 64 bit version...but I don't know.
Author:  Verrigan [ Mon Mar 19, 2007 4:23 am ]
Post subject: 
Seeing as the majority of users have said "Yes", I have decided to spend at least an hour a week on this project. The cool thing about doing it in Linux is that it will easily port to BSD, Sun, IBM AIX, System V.. (Oh God, please forgive whomever has a System V machine today... ;)) Uh... Did I miss anything?

Anyways.. I'll Program it specifically for Linux.. (I'm using CentOS on my spare laptop).. and there will be no user interface for the server. It will be programmed to accept 'Server Admin' logins from the local subnet and/or specified IP addresses (that you choose), so you will be able to build a server administration application however you wish... (Server Admin could view all chat, locate all users, etc..)

I always thought the server administration should have been done via a separate application anyways.. Rather than a 'console window' embedded in the game server itself.. (Leaves too much room for error when non-savvy users put in message/input boxes that stop the server until the console user hits enter..)

Anyways.. My first version will work with the MSE-1 (Possibly MSE-2, if it is released..) client. It will be open source, and I'll do my best to comment all revelant stuff as much as possible so people don't get too lost.. But I'm not going to explain the syntax. ;) Any tutorial I write in the future that applies to the server will have a Linux version and a VB version...

Okay.. So.. Look for it to come into existence in the next few months.. I hope to have it done and ready for release in less time than it has taken Godborn to go beta. :roll:
Author:  Verrigan [ Fri Mar 23, 2007 2:19 pm ]
Post subject: 
So I will be working on the Linux (actually... multi-platform, since I'm doing it in C.. Possibly C++, though C++ is going to be a learning experience for me..) version of MSE.. The hardest part, which isn't going to be so hard, is going to be the sockets.. Everything else should fall into play quite easily enough.

I have asked Dave to help out with this, and we are going to call it Merlin.

The first version will be compatible with the current MSE client. (Possibly MSE-2, as I stated before..)

Future versions will be a complete spin-off, with binary packets and other improvements. We will still be keeping the name Merlin. If MSE-2 is officially released before we start spinning it off, we will make a Merlin for that too.. Merlin 0.1 will be for MSE-1, and Merlin 0.2 will be for MSE-2. If there are to be any code changes to resolve issues with MSE-1 or MSE-2, the modified Merlin source will still keep the minor version number associated with that particular MSE, and we'll increase the revision number. (i.e. Merlin-0.1.1 = first revision for Merlin 0.1)

If you're interested in this project, look for it in the coming weeks. (or months) :)

[edit]
I forgot to mention.. Merlin 0.1 and 0.2 will be open source, and freely distributable.. (With all credit and copyrights intact)

Future versions will be made public on a case-by-case basis. (We may charge a small fee to access the 'new' sources prior to them becoming public.. Kinda like PHP-Nuke. :))
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