Mirage Source

Help people, yes. Release our source codes? Nice try.

Disagree. MR is going open source after I'm settled in my new job and have time to sort it out, personally vb6 is dead to me and my projects (Konfuze, Konfuze Classic... now Mirage Realms (though the code structure is heavily Jacobs these days, what can I say, the dude loves vb6) serve as little more than a cool induction to games, programming, and fun for newbies that want a super easy induction into coding.

People staying closed source because they feel a sense of achievement and don't want idiots grabbing and repackaging their efforts I agree with. People staying closed source because they think their MS based project is worth something... not so much. At least, not these days.

Not suggesting you are the latter, that's just my stance.

I just refuse to go open source because people demand it. It's stupid. Besides, some of us are working on serious projects, and we don't want our source code out there.

I think you're an idiot for releasing MR's source, but hey, you damaged the scene once, why not finish it off?

You should release find a way to release MR's source code without letting n00bs half-ass so called "engines" which are a bunch of C&P tuts and crappy, unoptimized code. I personally am looking forwards to MR source.

I'm also looking forward to seeing what you guys can make of "Gods Online". You guys are good programmers, hope this thing gets finished.

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I is back!

The point of this engine is in the name "open". If people arent willing to share their ideas, code and etc, then to put it bluntly, what is the point in anyone remaining in this place?

And that "damage" benefited how many people? Lots.

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I'm not releasing GO because MR source will be open source soon enough. GO is a stripped out MR with some code cleanup and a few extra features.

DFA doesn't have a copy and he does, I have no clue how he got it.

Nobody. It ruined the scene. All it did was flood it with script kiddies. There's nothing good that has come out of Konfuze's source being released. Notice the smart people are here, at MS working with the better source.

Konfuze was just a buggy piece of shit.

Wow someone is bitter. Next time I'm 13 and I break the mould and do something for the first time, I'll be sure to make it perfect before releasing it - just for you.

As for benefitting people, the thousands of people at eclipse, the hundreds who found elysium, you think the introduction to coding and game design hasn't made a difference to a few of those peoples career decisions? MS going open source made a pretty big fucking difference to mine, everyone that has discovered a love for coding through any hybrid of the Konfuze Source (that encapsulates the vast majority of every engine these days that has an audience) is someone it has benefitted.

They might be noobs, but if they take something away from experiencing first hand, first time, fun development they think is cool - I win.

Anything that introduces kids to coding is great, we have all learnt interface design, coding, game design, testing, web development... god knows how many skills through finding Mirage - who are you to say the same thing hasn't happened to thousands of people since the release of the Konfuze Source.

Stop being so bloody closed minded, a visual basic 6 game is never going to go commercial so start treating it like what it is - a fantastic hobbiest opportunity to get your teeth into a first real development project.

I'm not saying everything should go open source, not at all, but saying the release of the Konfuze source ruined everything and benefitted no-one is a massively uneducated overstatement and it caters for the opinion of maybe 10 people in a tiny community. There are active communities in their thousands thriving because I released that source, whereas suprisingly MS still remains a wasteland governed by a few closed-minded individuals bitter they haven't actually achieved anything for themselves yet.

Oh, when I say by a few, I mean you.

Sorry Matt, I would disagree. I learned from Elysium Diamond, until I eventually found MS4. If it weren't for Konfuze I wouldn't have picked up programming. While this may not be a big deal for you, it's certaintly a big deal to me. Not to mention, tons of people got experience from working with Elysium and whatnot.

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To start, this seems to have gone very offtopic.

Not to make any enemies after just coming back and browsing for a little nostalgia, but Liam is completely correct here. It got me more interested in computers than I already was, it gave me people skills and project mnaagement skills that most kids my age never had. In field, it also has given me the advantage - I am a hardware engineer with a deep programming background from the time I was a "small" child, as considering that I was a preteen then.

Mirage was a great help to me, and when it got split into Konfuze, I loved it because it gave me something to lead in as a kid, and that was cool. I loved it even more when it went open source, and I made a lot of "friends" per say over the internet through it. Deloria, Elysium, Konfuze and all other spawns of MirageSource that went into the mainstream did nothing but benefit people. Who cares about the "script kiddies" and noobs, they are all where you were at one point or another, because I have been here when most of you started, I know this for a fact, and I helped or watched most of you get helped.

Anyway, these "noobs" should make you feel better - in the real world there is not many times you will get to feel important and even less that there is not someone better than you - they give you the ability to be a mentor or just someoen who kicks ass in comparison.

As for some of them being completely retarded, not being able to ever grasp programming (I firmly beleive it is a "born" thing to be able to comperehend it well, just like being a good engineer) or just being a plain douche - ignore them, or politely tell them they will not get any help that way, and let them epicly fail.

Besides that, be proud of what you do, but realize VB6 is not where you want to be when you get into the field. For the first month I got stuck writing macros for Excel spreadsheets, it sucks, learn something more mainstream and you'll have a better chance of better projects - but always know the basics of dying languages, they tend to crop up and could help you out.

That's all I got.

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Say what you want, but releasing Konfuze ruined the scene no matter how you look at it. It enabled people to not have to learn. Also enabled people to continuously release engine after engine that changed nothing but the GUI.

Get off your high horse, Fox. Konfuze was and still is a piece of shit. It helped a few get into the scene, but they're learning horrible methods instead of what they should learn. Yes, this is VB6 but you have to understand that these standards are the same no matter the language you go.

Again, say what you want. I really don't care and you know it. So don't waste your time.

For fucks sake can we argue this in an appropriate topic?

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I resent that, as I did not learn any such "horrible methods." I could go endlessly into what Mirage Source, Konfuze and all did for me, but I do not wish to make you feel attacked or down on how little credit you give it.

In all honesty, Konfuze followed the natural pattern of the world and technology. No one wants to do anything by themselves ever, at least not for free. Anythign that makes it easier, saves money or saves time is what they want - especially in the world of hobbies.

Seriosuly, engines and shitty "code" exist for everything.

It's like saying the Model T ruined the scene for homemade motor vehicle owners because it opened it up to more people to have and was cheaper, even though it sucked at first release.

As for "fucks sakes" Nean, Matt is a moderator, let him handle his topic.

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Fox is right. No arguments needed.

Totally agree here. If it wasn't for elysium I would probably never got into the orpg developing scene. You are to closed minded matt :/

I'm not closed minded. Had Konfuze been cleaned up a bit and had Fox pounded into every nub's head that it was built to be an engine to make games, not to be a game, Konfuze would have had plenty potential. But considering none of that happened and it was solely a meeting place for some of the dumbest people to ever touch a source code (FrozenGod for example..) I consider the release of Konfuze's source to be a huge mistake.

Now, I know it doesn't matter what I say. Fox is still going to release MR and that's his business. I honestly hope he does it properly this time so that none of this nonsense happens again. If it's done right, it could be the complete opposite of Konfuze and actually help revive the scene.

Which is what I'm hoping happens.

i think its going to be interesting lol

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Either way it'll probably bring activity to these ORPG sites.

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If anyone cares I've thrown a very unfinished site up and some forums you can all sign up too...

http://www.mirage-realms.com

By the same token then OGC isn't as much of a horrible place as many of these same defends of Konfuze may claim it to be. :3

OGC and Mirage both make the same mistake. They don't advertise. To be quite honest, I'm not too fond of Fox, and I don't think he's too fond of me. But whatever he did with konfuze worked. It was used by a massive amount of users, more games were released every week than here in 1 year, and some of the games were actually quite good. His site structure was good, the engine was simple to start with, but harder to master. Basic instructions could be easily found, just like screenshots and released games.

When it was an engine, it was good. When it became open source, it went to hell.

I am. I'm talking about the original release of the Konfuze source, the very first version of Elysium.